Have you ever found yourself paying for over-salted food and overpriced drinks at an Applebee’s and thought: “What if I just stayed here…forever?” Well, a bug making the rounds in the Rick and Morty-adjacent shooter High On Life is allowing such a macabre fantasy to come true.
Released earlier this month on Xbox and PC, High On Life is a shooter steeped in the wacky comedic stylings of Rick and Morty. Developed by Squanch Games, a studio founded by Rick and Morty co-creator Justin Roiland himself, the game is about as loud and obnoxious as you’d expect. Despite obnoxiously bright colors and talking guns capable of delivering a headache or two, the game has soared to the top of Game Pass’s most-played titles. Recently, players have been finding themselves trapped in the game’s rendition of well-known American chain restaurant Applebee’s. It’s a bug for sure, but one that feels fittingly on-point for such an absurd and silly game.
Read More: High On Life: The Kotaku Review
“TRAPPED IN SPACE APPLEBEE’S!!” starts one Reddit thread on High On Life’s subreddit. “Hey guy’s, I love Applebee’s. Like fucking LOVE it. I thought Space Applebee’s would be better (AND IT IS!!) but I am stuck inside. This is my checkpoint, trapped inside with the 2 for $25 for all eternity. Anyone know a way out?? Plz help,” the post continues.
Searching “Applebee’s stuck” or “Applebee’s trapped High On Life” on either High On Life’s subreddit, or Twitter, yields similar pleas for help. A few have even captured some footage to share the struggle.
Others who have managed to escape are finding themselves teleported back into the Applebee’s. “Before going home I saved a human outside of the Applebee’s, I got teleported by accident to the sanctuary then I was teleported back where I was, got killed almost instantly and now I’m stuck in the Applebee’s because the door won’t open.”
In addition to asking Squanch Games for comment, Kotaku has reached out to Applebee’s to find out what one should do if you find yourself in a similar situation.
Get ready to toss out your Netflix confetti (made from shredded red envelopes and DVDs), because Netflix is having another parade in its own honor. As usual, the parade is in honor of a new thing on Netflix that got way better numbers than every other thing on Netflix, proving that Netflix is a good company that makes good stuff, and each new thing is better and more popular than the last new thing! Hip hip hooray!
So yeah, we’re as skeptical of this as we always are, but Deadline is reporting that Netflix is reporting that new Addams Family reboot/spin-off Wednesdayjust had the biggest week of any English-language series in Netflix history. It was apparently watched for 341 million hours in its debut, with more than 50 million households tuning in to see what Jenna Ortega’s angry goth child would be up to at the mysterious and magical Nevermore Academy. The series is directed by Tim Burton, and it also stars Gwendoline Christie, Jamie McShane, Percy Hynes White, Christina Ricci, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Luis Guzmán.
The previous English-language record-holder was the first block of episodes for Stranger Things’ fourth season, which were viewed for 335 million hours at their highest. The current record-holder overall, separated from the English-language (and its bizarrely inconsistent grammatical rules), is Squid Game, which was watched for 571 million hours in its highest week. These numbers all come from Netflix, and “hours watched” is kind of a purposefully vague metric that has nothing to do with how a viewer felt about the thing they watched or even how much of the thing they actually watched—we know 50 million households put Wednesday on, but what if 10 of them watched 300 hours and the other 40 only watched one hour? That would be confusing data!
Peter Weller in Guillermo Del Toro’s Cabinet Of CuriositiesPhoto: Ken Woroner/Netflix
At the start of every episode of Netflix’s latest anthology horror series, Guillermo Del Toro’s Cabinet Of Curiosities, audiences are greeted by the Oscar-winning director. Introducing each new tale in front of an actual cabinet of curiosities, the Pan’s Labyrinthfilmmaker immediately evokes both Alfred Hitchcock Presents and Rod Serling’s The Twilight Zone. And the comparisons are apt, if readily welcomed. After all, del Toro’s first foray into television finds him playing host and tastemaker to a stellar roster of horror and thriller storytellers who remind us why this genre remains fertile ground for exploring today’s most relevant issues.
But maybe we should pause and explain why del Toro picked the “cabinet of curiosities” as both title and concept for the show. As he explains in the series’ opening episode (the Guillermo Navarro-directed “Lot 36,” written by Regina Corrado from an original del Toro story): “In centuries past, when the world was full of mystery and traveling was reserved for the very few, a new form of collection was born.” The cabinet of curiosities, which could be a building or an actual piece of furniture, housed any and all sorts of things. And tied to every one of its objects was a story. At the top of every installment, he opens up the titular wood-carved cabinet and offers us an object that will prove crucial to these stories (a set of keys, say, or a remote control).
These opening interludes help elucidate the way the series approaches its genre trappings. The cabinet of curiosities, after all, serves as much as a structural conceit as a metaphor for the anthology setup. Del Toro wants to remind us that scary stories can and do begin with the most mundane of objects—but also that the very act of storytelling, the craftsmanship of such narrative flair, lies on the filmmakers are the heart of this anthology series. It’s why every introduction places such objects next to carved figurines of the directors helming each episode.
Indeed, each installment, which boasts directors like Panos Cosmatos (Mandy), Jennifer Kent (The Babadook, The Nightingale), and Catherine Hardwicke (Thirteen, Twilight), is, like the beautiful eponymous wooden cabinet, expertly crafted. The attention to detail in everything from thrill-inducing soundscapes that conjure dug-up graves to meticulously art-directed spaces that are truly haunting elevates these terrifying short horror tales about such timeless themes as greed, pride, and vanity, all while dredging up devilish takes on zombies, rat kings, vengeful demons, and, of course, the most horrific villain one can think of: capitalism itself.
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Daphne Hoskins and Rupert Grint in Guillermo Del Toro’s Cabinet Of CuriositiesPhoto: Ken Woroner/Netflix
Any review of an anthology series—especially one as strong as this one—is bound to play favorites. And while I could focus on any one of the many standout episodes (actors Tim Blake Nelson and F. Murray Abraham, for example, make the entries they star in, “Lot 36” and “The Autopsy,” respectively, gripping performance showcases that double as meditations on what we owe the dead), we’d be remiss if we didn’t single out the one we’ve yet to shake off.
We’re talking about the Ana Lily Amirpour-directed installment “The Outside.” Written by Haley Z. Boston and based on a short story by comics author Emily Carroll, this horror-comedy take on the preyed insecurities of a young woman in a wintry nondescript suburban neighborhood is a knockout. The ’80s Christmas-set episode stars Kate Micucci (best known as one half of the musical comedy duo Garfunkel and Oates) as Stacey, an awkward bank teller whose love of taxidermy, not to mention her unfashionable sense of style, keeps her on the outs with her beautifully coiffed colleagues.
GUILLERMO DEL TORO’S CABINET OF CURIOSITIES | Official Trailer | Netflix
As with every other episode, the specifics of “The Outside” are best left unspoiled, but know that Micucci’s comedic sensibilities—as well as Dan Stevens’ penchant for playing outsized if alluring weirdos—are expertly deployed here once Stacey decides her betterment shall come in the shape of a beauty regimen that proves almost disastrously self-destructive … until it’s not. Just as she’s proven with her filmmaking credits, Amirpour is one of the most exciting voices working in horror today. With “The Outside” she manages to defamiliarize water-cooler gossip and office secret Santas with such skillful ease you’ll never believe anything is scarier than a gaggle of shoulder-pad-wearing women silently judging you while aggressively lotioning their arms with abandon. A darkly comedic fable about the impossible beauty standards women needlessly hold each other to, Amirpour’s directorial offering here is, above anything else, a fantastic chance to see Micucci shine. The extended shot that closes out the episode alone—which mocks and complicates an all-too-bleak ending—is a transfixing master class in the way comedy and horror make for perfect bedfellows.
As both a survey of contemporary horror and an ode to the timeless nature of its many concerns, Guillermo Del Toro’s Cabinet Of Curiosities is a welcome addition to the filmmaker’s oeuvre. Just as he’s proven time and time again, the Oscar-winning director is just as much a student as a master of horror, and here he is once more allowing audiences to revel in its many possibilities with a slew of entrancing and an times all too timely stories—and just in time for spooky season, no less.
Guillermo Del Toro’s Cabinet Of Curiosities premieres October 25 on Netflix.
After the death of Queen Elizabeth II, Meghan Markle took a month or so off from her Spotify podcast Archetypes—presumably out of respect to her husband and his family and not because she knew she’d say something about how the Queen treated her if she got in front of a podcast mic. But now, with the show’s latest episode, the Duchess Of Sussex has decided to take some shots at a different surprisingly beloved institution: The old NBC reality/game show Deal Or No Deal. One of Markle’s early show business jobs was serving as one of the show’s briefcase models during its second season, and speaking with Paris Hilton on Archetypes, she said that she would get a pit in her stomach during the show because, “I was so much more than what was being objectified on the stage.”
Markle added that she was “forced to be all looks and little substance” and that she was “reduced to this specific archetype: the bimbo.” The premise of the show, for those who don’t recall, was that a contestant would pick a numbered briefcase containing a secret amount of money from a big collection of briefcases that all had a model… standing by them. The contestant would eliminate briefcases and then find out how much was in each one, narrowing down the options of what would be in their briefcase. Then they would get calls from an unseen “Banker” who would offer to buy their briefcase for an insultingly low number, and they’d have to decide whether to take it or to keep playing. It was an unbelievably huge hit. Everybody went briefcase crazy.
But now people are mad about Markle’s representation of what Deal Or No Deal was like, and we don’t mean regular people; We mean famous people. During a recent episode of The View (via Entertainment Weekly), Whoopi Goldberg argued that nobody watching Deal Or No Deal was objectifying the models, saying, “they’re just thinking, ‘I want the money.’” Goldberg went on to suggest that Vanna White isn’t objectified on Wheel Of Fortune because she’s “always in something interesting and beautiful” and if Markle felt like the models on her show were being objectified then that’s on her because they’re just doing their jobs as performers.
It’s a hell of a point, and her The View cohost Sunny Hostin noted that Markle’s comments did make her think about the way women with certain body types are treated by the entertainment industry, but Goldberg shot that down by saying, “That’s TV, baby. But what did you think you were going to? You know that’s what the show was.”—And it kind of seems like we’re soooo close to putting it together there. “That’s the point of the show” and “it objectifies women” can both be true!
Anyway, Goldberg isn’t the only one who doesn’t agree with Markle’s take on Deal Or No Deal. Fellow former Deal Or No Deal model (and former Real Housewives Of Atlanta cast member) Claudia Jordan told TMZthat nobody was forcing them to be “bimbos,” but that it was a modeling job and they all knew that going in. Another former Deal Or No Deal model, Donna Feldman (who is also on The Oval), told HollywoodLifethat nobody was ever treated like a “bimbo” while they worked on the show, but that even if the show is only interested in how she looked, it didn’t stop her getting other jobs with her personality or intellect or work ethic.
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It seems unlikely that Markle will address any of this again, since her podcast seems very Produced and she’s smart enough to know that it wouldn’t help her or anyone else to keep this whole thing going, but we’ll see.
Kermit The FrogPhoto: Scott Gries/ImageDirect (Getty Images)
The original ‘80s Muppet Babies cartoon is a licensing nightmare these days thanks to its regular use of clips from popular movies (and it’s not like we’d ever see a world where onemassive company owns the Muppets and Star Wars and Indiana Jones), but the appeal of seeing the Muppets as babies was simply too good for Disney to resist. So, in 2018, it released a brand new Muppet Babies CG-animated series with the same basic premise—Muppets as babies—but without the “what if the Muppets just watch Star Wars in every episode?” hook and with a more explicitly baby-targeting tone.
According to original Muppet Babies writer Jeffrey Scott, though, it was still a little too close to his show for Disney to get away with it without paying him. Scott sued Disney in 2020, arguing that his original deal for the first show gave him the rights to its production bible, meaning certain elements of Muppet Babies that were created for the show (and not imported from existing Muppets canon) belonged to him. When Disney made the new show, using elements from the old one (like the nanny character, certain running jokes, and the general blueprint for stories), it did so without giving Scott credit.
Since then, the suit was temporarily dropped on the grounds that Scott had lost control of the Muppet Babies production bible in bankruptcy court and therefore had no right to sue over something he no longer owned, but that has all been worked out. Now, The Hollywood Reporter says a federal judge has shut down Disney’s attempts to get the lawsuit dismissed, finding credible copyright claims in Scott’s argument that Disney is using his nanny character and that an episode of both the reboot and the original series feature the Muppet Babies learning about impressionist art by looking at “photorealistic” replicas of famous works (and both even have Animal shouting “Renoir!”).
Basically, the new Muppet Babies—which didn’t seem to have that much in common with the old Muppet Babies—is in legal hot water over being too much like the old Muppet Babies, and now the case is free to move forward.
Alexa Nikolas in 2005Photo: Michael Buckner (Getty Images)
TV creator Dan Schneider has been an uncomfortable topic for Nickelodeon for years at this point—his multi-decade tenure at the network a blend of massive success, and allegations of unprofessional behavior, including toward the many young actors who worked on his various shows. Now, that discomfort has been brought back into the spotlight once again, as Alexa Nikolas, one of the stars of Schneider-created series Zoey 101, has spoken out about him during a protest against Nickelodeon’s treatment of its child stars, calling Schneider a “creator of childhood trauma,” and stating bluntly that she did not feel safe around him during her time at the network.
A writer, producer, and creator on some of the network’s most successful shows (Drake And Josh, iCarly, Victorious, and several others), Schneider’s star-making run at the network stretched from the late 1990s to 2018—when Nickelodeon abruptly announced that it was cutting ties with him, citing an internal investigation that, per The New York Times, found “evidence of verbal abuse by Schneider to his colleagues.”
Nikolas’ presence at the protest on Thursday comes not long after iCarly star Jennette McCurdy reignited conversation about Nickelodeon’s treatment of young performers with the publication of her new memoir I’m Glad My Mom Died. McCurdy’s book doesn’t talk about Schneider by name—but it does feature numerous stories of a man only referred to as “The Creator,” who verbally abuses and manipulates young actors, encouraging them to drink alcohol, screams at them, and gives them unwanted back massages. (The New York Times report on the internal investigation into Schneider said it found no evidence of sexual misconduct.)
Since her stint at Nickelodeon, Nikolas has founded the activist/whistleblowing group Eat Predators, which is mostly focused on the music industry—but which has recently branched into TV. Besides talking about her own physical discomfort around Schneider—and calling out a time when he and other executives on Zoey 101 brought her into a room alone and yelled at her, then a young teenager, until she cried—Nikolas also called for an investigation into Schneider’s production company, Schneider’s Bakery. Among other questions raised, Nikolas says she’s curious about how many non-disclosure agreements former actors on the show’s productions have signed (McCurdy alleges in her book that she was offered $300,000 to never talk about her experiences at Nickelodeon), and raised concerns—as a number of people have, over the years—about the potentially sexual nature of some of the footage shot for the various series.
Nikolas’ protest didn’t focus solely on Schneider; she also put much of her focus on Nickelodeon itself, accusing executives of enabling abusive behavior toward its child stars.
Rhea Seehorn in Better Call SaulPhoto: Greg Lewis/AMC/Sony Pictures Television
When asked to give a hint about how Better Call Saul would wrap up during a Tribeca Festival panel in June, Bob Odenkirk offered two words: “second life.” That clue turned out to be much pithier and more perfect than anyone might have guessed. And it was a kind of perfect ending—and a new beginning for Jimmy McGill.
Jimmy gave way to Saul who briefly gave way to Gene Takovic who gave way back to Saul who claimed a redemption for himself as Jimmy. That redemption came in the form of trading a seven-year prison sentence for an 86-year one to prove that, despite what people like Mike Ehrmantraut, Walter White, and his brother Chuck told him, he wasn’t all about slick, Slippin’ Jimmy trickery in the end.
Busted Gene was done in by Marion, the gutsy Ask-Jeeves-searching lady who used her LifeAlert to notify the cops, complete with car description and license plate number, about Saul Goodman’s location. He tried to get away on foot after retrieving his bandage tin full of diamonds, but the jewels slipped out of Slippin’ Jimmy’s hands when he was hiding in a dumpster, and Omaha police officers led him off to the hoosegow. Showrunner and episode writer and director Peter Gould’s storyline sent Saul to jail early in the finale, which amped the excitement about all that awaited us.
One of the biggest surprise appearances of the episode was Saul’s attorney, or rather, “advisory counsel,” Bill Oakley, the former Albuquerque district attorney who has taken Saul’s place on a bus bench, advertising his new position as defense attorney. No longer in awe of Jimmy’s success after he learned of his association with the Salamancas, Bill nonetheless took Saul’s call and agreed to represent him after Saul assured him it would do wonders for his legal street cred. And from the modest automobile he’s driving, we’re guessing he could use the high-profile work. Not that Saul is doing Bill any favors. Bill is there to help Saul have a little local street cred of his own, someone without a boatload of pending criminal charges to help Saul muscle the government into a very generous seven-year sentence at a cushy Club Fed-type prison (in Butner, North Carolina, the one Bernie Madoff died in), with golf privileges, and a weekly pint of mint chocolate chip ice cream. That last perk is Saul’s way to prove that he can get the upper hand, even in his situation, and defeat the prosecutor who he is told has never lost a case. He can totally own his opponent, even when he should be looking at decades in prison.
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But then, a twist: When Saul tries to play one more card, offering up what he thinks is fresh, juicy info about the death of Howard Hamlin, he learns Kim already dished that dirt as part of the package of confessions she served up to the Albuquerque D.A. and Howard’s widow, Cheryl. He’s shocked Kim actually did what he told her to do during their recent tense phone call, telling all about her role in the circumstances surrounding Howard’s murder.
At first, we think Saul is angry that Kim got the better of him and has limited what he may be able to get out of the government. He really wants that weekly Blue Bell ice cream, and he tells Bill, in front of an marshal shepherding him to an Albuquerque courtroom, that he has one more bit of information he’s sure Kim didn’t share, intimating that it is something that will be used against her, perhaps causing her a devastating civil action by Cheryl Hamlin. Saul seems eager to make this happen, and when Kim is tipped off by Albuquerque assistant district attorney Suzanne Ericsen that Saul plans to introduce new testimony involving her, Kim shows up in the courtroom to witness his latest shenanigans herself.
But then there’s another twist, one that explains both Bob Odenkirk’s hint about the finale and the finale’s title, “Saul Gone.” With a brilliant shot of a courtroom exit sign brightly lit above Saul’s head, he interrupts the proceedings to stress to the judge that Walter White’s criminal enterprise earned him millions of dollars and that without his legal maneuverings on Walt’s behalf, Walt would have ended up in jail in a month. Saul gets emotional as he tries to talk about what happened to Howard, but then, when he sees Kim at the back of the room and sees that she’s really listening to him, he finally reveals what he did to Chuck, ruining his ability to practice law, to purposefully hurt him, after which Chuck killed himself. “And I’ll live with that,” Saul says. And just to make sure everyone knows, officially, what Kim realized when he turned around and locked eyes with her, Saul corrects the judge when she tells Mr. Goodman to take his seat. “The name’s McGill. I’m James McGill,” he says, pointing to himself, unbuttoning the jacket of his very shiny Saul suit.
Bob Odenkirk in Better Call SaulPhoto: Greg Lewis/AMC/Sony Pictures Television
Poor Bill tries to save some semblance of the case, because while Saul was getting his Jimmy McGill on and redeeming himself with Kim, he was costing himself that sweet government deal. Exit, literally, Saul, and cut to Jimmy riding the bus to prison…not the Madoff one, but Montrose, the one he had earlier described as “the Alcatraz of the Rockies.” And he’s scheduled to stay there for the next eight-and-a-half decades, i.e. a life sentence even with time off for good behavior.
All is not lost, though: During that bus ride, his fellow inmates recognize him not as Jimmy, but as “Better Call Saul,” and they stomp their feet and shout his catchphrase in appreciation of their hero. Inside Montrose, it’s clear he’s willing to get his Saul back on to live out that sentence as comfortably as possible. His cohorts refer to him as Saul, and a shot of him running a dough machine fools us into thinking we might be back at the Cinnabon until we see Saul is working in the prison kitchen baking loaves of bread.
And then he gets a visit from his attorney, but it’s not Bill. It’s Kim, who uses her old New Mexico bar card to visit her ex-husband. In another beautifully shot scene, Kim and Jimmy (that’s what she calls him) stand against the visiting room and share a cigarette she has snuck in for him. For a minute, they are those two people in the first episode of the series, “Uno,” when they are in the HHM parking garage, oozing chemistry while they are passing a cigarette back and forth.
This is a very emotional, if brief, reunion, and Jimmy stands in the yard, watching Kim exit when he shoots finger guns and blows on them as she leaves. They’re standing on opposite sides of the fences, of freedom, but Kim just might be back. She makes a point of telling Jimmy she got in to see him with that New Mexico bar card that has no expiration date on it. Kim, like Jimmy, still likes bending the rules a little herself.
Stray observations
Which surprise flashback character cameo to love most: Peter Diseth’s Bill Oakley, Jonathan Banks’ Mike, Michael McKean’s Chuck, Bryan Cranston’s Walter, or the biggest surprise of all, Betsy Brandt’s Marie Schrader, back to try to make sure Saul is punished to get justice for her Hank? Organically fitted into Saul’s inevitable journey to prison, it was a welcome reunion of favorites.
Jimmy’s big break began with dumpster diving for info to help the Sandpiper residents sue the company. His lifetime in prison started in another dumpster, where he dropped all those diamonds and ruined a chance to call Ed for another life on the lam.
Undoubtedly the funniest line ever uttered about a craft store, as Jimmy describes to Chuck how his legal practice is going: “One of my clients, he got caught waving the weenie outside a Hobby Lobby.”
During Jimmy’s flashbacks with Mike (during their infamous trek through the desert in “Bagman”) and Walt (from their time together in Ed’s basement while they were waiting to be transported to their new lives), he was curiously obsessed with what they would do differently with access to time travel. Walt, in his most arrogant and dismissive ways, points out time travel isn’t possible, then says all Saul really wants is to discuss what regrets they have. Later, in his flashback to the visit with Chuck, Chuck has a paperback book on the kitchen counter: H.G. Wells’ The Time Machine.
Ken JenningsPhoto: VALERIE MACON/AFP via Getty Images
This may be hard to believe, coming from the game show institution that went through a very long run of trial hosts only to give the job to the show’s producer (at least temporarily), but Jeopardy! seems to have gone for the least surprising and least interesting choice when deciding who should be its permanent post-Alex Trebek host. Would it be Ken Jennings? Would it be Mayim Bialik? The two of them have been trading off for nearly a year, but now Jeopardy! has decided that… they’ll both just keep trading off.
That’s according to Variety’s sources, which say that both Jennings and Bialik have “entered into long-term deals” to keep splitting the Jeopardy! host job, with Bialik also doing special primetime versions of Jeopardy! and an upcoming version of Celebrity Jeopardy! (for real, not the SNL sketch, which wouldn’t be as much fun these days for, you know, sad reasons). This comes exactly one month after the show’s producers announced that they would have an announcement about who will permanently host Jeopardy! “very, very soon,” which seems like a real stretch of what “very, very soon” means. But what would the producers of Jeopardy! know about sticking to the exact letter of the law? Surely they’re not sticklers for specificity over at Jeopardy! HQ, right?
It doesn’t sound like this has officially been confirmed or announced by the Jeopardy! producers or Sony Pictures Entertainment, but Variety seems confident that it’s just a matter of letting the ink dry. Or whatever they use on those Jeopardy! answer boards, which are probably digital pens and not actual pens. Either way, don’t be surprised if you keep seeing Ken Jennings and Mayim Bialik asking for answers in the form of a question on your TV every afternoon before or after Wheel Of Fortune.
Tony Dalton in Better Call Saul season 6Photo: Greg Lewis/AMC
[Editor’s note: This interview contains spoilers from last night’s episode of Better Call Saul,“Point And Shoot.” Please watch the episode before reading on.]
We’ve been waiting since May for Better Call Saulto resume its sixth season—although it feels like much longer than that—especially after the shocking Howard Hamlin (Patrick Fabian) cliffhanger. What better, or rather darker, way for Lalo Salamanca (Tony Dalton) to walk back into Jimmy (Bob Odenkirk) and Kim’s (Rhea Seehorn) lives than by blowing it all up, right? After the midseason premiere, titled “Point And Shoot,” we now know that the six-week break was well worth it. As Lalo involves Jimmy and Kim in his vendetta against Gustavo Fring (Giancarlo Esposito), all hell breaks loose—and not in Lalo’s favor.
With just five episodes remaining of the beloved Breaking Bad spin-off, Saul showrunner Peter Gould talks to The A.V. Club about Lalo and his terrific portrayer Tony Dalton, how the events of this episode are going to impact this run-up to the series finale, and how TV legend Carol Burnett ended up filming her upcoming Better Call Saul guest appearance.
The A.V. Club: “Plan and Execution” ended with the shocker of Howard’s brutal, unexpected death, and Kim and Jimmy living out that horror show with Lalo’s appearance. How did you come to the decision that the midseason premiere would conclude this chapter of Lalo vs. Gus?
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Peter Gould: Just to state maybe the obvious, when we broke these episodes so long ago, we had no idea that there was going to be a break in the middle. We just thought episode seven was a good ending for an episode. We didn’t know we were going to make people wait six weeks to see the other part.
A big part of our thinking had to be, what is Lalo’s plan? This is one of the things that is such a struggle because we have a lot of characters on the show who are very smart. I mean, nobody’s smarter than Gus Fring. Except Lalo seems to be giving him a run for his money, somewhat through intellect and also through sheer tenacity and willingness to let bodies fall where they may. But we wanted desperately to find a way to have these two guys go face to face, which of course meant, and Lalo feels the same way, taking Mike out of the equation, at least for long enough for Lalo to get a look at the super lab. When Gus shows up, it’s a bonus as far as Lalo’s concerned. Boy, things are really falling in Lalo’s favor, or so it seems, for a bit, there.
AVC: It must have been tough letting go of that fantastic villain, one of the all-time greats in the Better Call Saul/Breaking Bad universe, played brilliantly by Tony Dalton.
PG: Oh, yeah. I mean, look, we love [him]. Lalo is just a great character. And Tony, Lalo wouldn’t be a great character if Tony hadn’t played him. A lot of his swagger and Errol Flynn-like ability comes from Tony. He’s really like a cross between a cartel killer and a ’40s movie star. It was a very sad thing to say goodbye to Tony and say goodbye to Lalo. But we have to play by the rules that we’ve set out. And we know that Gus Fring is alive and well and doing business a few years later when we meet him on Breaking Bad. None of us saw how that could be possible if Lalo is still out there, with designs on getting revenge on Gus. And also, we had that line in Breaking Bad where Gus tells Hector that he’s the last surviving Salamanca. You have to dance with the one that brung you. But having said that, boy, what a run for Tony Dalton as Lalo. Everybody who works on the show would love to work with Tony again.
AVC: Lalo was obviously raised, or was very close to, Tio Salamanca. But he seems like the smartest of the Salamancas. We all agree on that, right?
PG: He is the smartest, yeah. He seems a little bit more in control of himself than Tuco. And of course, there is that picture. I don’t know if you caught it, but there’s a photograph in the previous episode, in Hector’s room, where it is Hector and the twins and Tuco as children. So I think Lalo must have had some other influences, because everybody else, either the twins who were ice-cold killers and almost wordless and Tuco, who I don’t think can keep it buckled down enough to move through polite society. But then there’s Lalo, who can travel to Europe and blend in. That’s a very special skill where the Salamancas are concerned.
Peter Gould behind-the-scenes of Better Call SaulPhoto: Michele K. Short/AMC
AVC: Let’s get to Jimmy and Kim. When he’s trying to convince her to leave the apartment, he’s trying to save her life. And there’s a moment where he’s looking into her eyes, and it feels like he’s not just relieved that she’s agreed to go, but is he almost assuming that this is goodbye?
PG: Oh, yeah. Jimmy feels whoever stays behind in the apartment is going to die. How can you trust Lalo Salamanca? Even if Jimmy or Kim can accomplish this task he’s given him to start with, then it eventually falls to Kim, when they come back, what’s really going to happen? Jimmy knows he’s sacrificing himself at that moment. And interestingly enough, you’re seeing Jimmy trying to work an angle even with Lalo in the apartment. At first, you think it’s obvious, but then you realize he’s trying to trade his life for Kim’s, and he wants her to be safe. He’s willing to face the music with Lalo. Of course, when he’s left alone with Lalo, he has figured out that Jimmy’s connection to Nacho means that he could have been part of some enemy action. He’s right to be thinking that way. And in fact, if Lalo didn’t have more that he wanted to know from Jimmy, I think Jimmy would be lying dead on the floor right next to Howard Hamlin.
AVC: Going forward to the final episodes, Kim had this very important piece of information about Lalo still being alive, but she didn’t trust Jimmy enough to share it with him. How is Jimmy going to be able to deal with that?
PG: Well, that’s a great question, and it seems like he’s bound to find out soon. There’s definitely more to come. How does he find out? What is his response? What’s Kim’s response when he finds out that she knew that Lalo was alive? Yeah, there’s still a lot more story between these two.
AVC: The bigger issue is how are the two of them going to live with themselves and with each other, after their scheme to humiliate Howard went in this direction that they couldn’t have foreseen? It feels like the marriage now faces danger as big as Lalo’s gun.
PG: Boy, I love the way you put that. I agree with every word that you just said. Their romp of setting Howard up was sort of an aphrodisiac for both of them and also sort of a strange kind of hobby for two adults to have, but it worked for them in a certain way. That’s had terrible results. How are they going to live with what just happened? Although right now, we’re just thinking, how are they going to get through the next 24 hours? So we’ll have to see what impact this has on them.
Bob Odenkirk, Rhea Seehorn, Jonathan Banks in Better Call Saul season 6Photo: Greg Lewis/AMC
AVC: Mike has tried to help set them up to get through those next 24 hours, and it certainly seems like he’s feeling guilty about the body count because he realized that all these things had snowballed since he’d taken that watch off of Jimmy and Kim.
PG: That’s true. Mike has said in previous episodes, they’re stretched thin. The Fring organization, as powerful as it is, is not the Secret Service. There are only so many of these very trustworthy guys that Mike has. Lalo made a move that neither Gus nor Mike anticipated. It’s to Lalo’s credit. He wrong-footed both Gustavo Fring and Mike Ehrmantraut. Not a lot of people have ever done that. Of course, Gus also wrong-footed Mike by deciding on his own, without telling Mike, to go to the laundry. You can see that at the very end of the episode, these two guys retreat into their separate corners. Their relationship has changed a little bit. The truth is that these two guys are now bound together, the way they will be on Breaking Bad. I mean, Mike has made his choice. He’s thrown his lot in with Gus. Maybe Gus will tell Mike next time, maybe. I don’t know. He seemed to keep Mike in the dark an awful lot on Breaking Bad.
I just have to say that one thing I skipped over was just how incredible Bob and Rhea are in this episode. Seeing these two characters in this extreme, extreme situation, I don’t think I’ve ever seen either one of them do the things that they’ve done in this episode. Vince Gilligan directed it, and Gordon Smith wrote it. It’s a really special one. I can’t wait for the whole world to see the last series of episodes because this might be the best work we’ve ever done.
AVC: We know Carol Burnett is going to appear as a character named Marion. How did her guest appearance come about?
PG: The short answer is Vince met Carol, and then I met Carol. I got to meet her at the Peabodys where I heard someone tell me “Carol Burnett wants to meet you.” So, of course, my wife and I scurried over to her table. You can’t imagine what a spectacular person she is. It’s not just the work she’s done, but her warmth and generosity as a human being. She is a special, special person. We were excited that she knew who we were and that she liked the show. A character came up as we were working on these episodes, and the first thing we said was “Wouldn’t it be amazing if Carol Burnett would be willing to travel to Albuquerque and be on our show?” And I got to tell you, it was a dream come true. When you see what she’s doing, it’s so much more than a cameo. She creates a character that people are going to really love and be fascinated by.
Tony Sirico, Steve Van Zandt, and Michael Imperioli in 2005Photo: Evan Agostini (Getty Images)
Tony Sirico died yesterday, prompting an outpouring of tributes from fans and former co-workers alike—and especially from The Sopranos, where he played mobster Paulie Walnuts across all six seasons of the HBO show.
Said mourners today include series creator David Chase, who (per THR) issued a statement today recognizing what Sirico—who spent years in and out of prison before turning to the world of acting—brought to the part of the temperamental, frequently hilarious Paulie:
Tony was a jewel. The way Buddhists refer to a jewel—supernatural and a master. But certainly not a Zen master. He was so uproarious, so funny, so talented. I’m very happy for him that in his mid-50s and 60s he finally learned how talented and loved he was. I was just thinking about him yesterday, strangely enough, and was reminded that he was a main reason for the success of The Sopranos. I will miss him greatly, Gennaro. As will the world.
Meanwhile, Lorraine Braco—who also appeared alongside Sirico in Martin Scorsese’s Goodfellas—wrote on Twitter, “A stand up guy who always had my back and who loved my children and my parents. I have a lifetime of memories with Tony–starting with Goodfellas to The Sopranos and way beyond but my God, did we have fun doing the Bensonhurst Spelling Bee. I hope he’s in heaven cracking everybody up now. Love you, my pal.” And see also Steve Van Zandt, who wrote “RIP Tony Sirico. Legendary. Silvio’s best buddy “Paulie Walnuts” in The Sopranos, Frankie “The Fixer’s” older brother Antonino “Father Tony” Tagliano in Lilyhammer. A larger than life character on and off screen. Gonna miss you a lot my friend. Deepest condolences to the family.” These, in addition to a message yesterday from Sirico’s frequent Sopranos scene partner Michael Imperioli, who helped spread news of his death, and wrote about his own heartbreak. “I am proud to say I did a lot of my best and most fun work with my dear pal Tony. I will miss him forever. He is truly irreplaceable.”
In addition to those who worked with him, fans have continued to make their own tributes as well, sharing their favorite Paulie Walnuts quotes, and repeating many of the colorful anecdotes that surrounded Sirico—including an-oft repeated story that his major condition for accepting the role of Paulie was that the show’s writers never make him a rat. And, of course, many people have reposted one of the sweetest, strangest moments of Sirico’s career: When he and Steve Schirripa appeared on Sesame Street, briefly taking over the roles of Bert and Ernie.
Sesame Street: The Bert and Ernie Christmas Special with Tony Sirico and Steve Schirripa